[MCN] "I can't breathe" -- if ocean fish could speak- How Lance Olsen got it wrong

[Patty A]

Thank you so much Gene and Linda for sharing with us the excellent article
that was re-published in High Country News; it is  relevant, and
informative.  Thank you Ari for your comments and also for sharing the
article by Matt Taibbi.  I found it very thought provoking and informative
also.  Thank you Jeremy for your thoughtful words of insight and wisdom.
Thank you all for the important discussions.  Much to deeply think about!

Patty

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 2:32 PM Trevor Lowell via Missoula-Community-News <
missoula-community-news at bigskynet.org> wrote:

> Ari,
>
> Thanks for sharing this article. I too worry about PC culture neutering
> public discourse and I think Taibi makes some important observations about
> how detrimental that can be. Not just to personal lives but to the
> fundamental need to support free speech. I think this works both ways
> though. I don't agree that this conversation is antagonistic or with the
> suggestion that I'm outraged. Language is important and it's interesting to
> note how words like problematic and inappropriate were interpreted as
> outrage and associated with moral mania. Attaching these kinds of labels to
> a civil community conversation is dismissive, and just as corrosive to free
> and open discourse as the moral mania Taibi discusses.
>
> No one is pulling out the pitchforks or threatening to de-platform Lance.
> In fact most have spoken in his defense. This is great! It's helped me
> understand that many people appreciate his posts and has also caused me to
> think harder about how and why I responded to his choice of words. I
> definitely agree that we should be aware of how these discussions can
> quickly elevate, and especially sensitive to how that can impact peoples'
> lives, so thanks for contributing this important point to the conversation.
> But I question why you feel it's antagonistic to have this discussion
> publically. I feel strongly that we should be encouraging these types of
> conversations and not dismissing them as damaging and overly sensitive
> reactions from the cancel culture left.
>
> I've been subscribed to this listserv for six years and this has been one
> of the more engaging conversations I've been a part of. To me it embodies
> the best of what a public forum can be and what I would love to see more
> of. It might not be everyone's vision for the MCN, but I will continue to
> encourage what Jeremy called opportunities to meaningfully engage.
>
> -Trevor
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 4:17 PM Ari LeVaux via Missoula-Community-News <
> missoula-community-news at bigskynet.org> wrote:
>
>> Lance,
>>
>> I appreciate what you contribute to the list serve. I don’t think I’m
>> alone, and I don't understand how your activity might be chasing off other
>> posters. Regarding your use of "I Can’t Breathe.”  I personally found it
>> understandable, but perhaps you could have explained it better so that
>> those with less of an understanding of environmental justice could make the
>> many important connections between racial and environmental oppression.
>>
>> I would encourage everyone to check out this recent article by Matt Taibi
>> on the dangers of “moral mania” and the left’s propensity to attack itself.
>> The article focuses on some things happening in the media, but the
>> principle applies broadly.  People are losing their jobs and careers for
>> comments like Lance’s, which is a scary thing.
>>
>> https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-news-media-is-destroying-itself
>>
>> If anyone on this list objects to my not objecting to Lance’s subject
>> line, please respond to me directly. No need to antagonize the entire list
>> with debate over who needs to breathe more, or who owns this moment.
>>
>> Ari
>>
>>
>> On Jun 18, 2020, at 8:40 AM, Lance Olsen via Missoula-Community-News <
>> missoula-community-news at bigskynet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Trevor
>>
>> First, for a variety of reasons, I will be sharply reducing the number of
>> my posts to Missoula Community News
>>
>> And I get what Annie said, and have no problem with Annie, and understand
>> why she — and you — are outraged by my post “I can’t breathe” — if ocean
>> fish could speak
>>
>> I decided not to get into a debate about it on MCN, but I did tell Annie
>> that my post came from an old and well-known story about rising ocean heat.
>>
>> I told her that, as the ocean warms up, fish need more of its oxygen.
>> Trouble is, as water warms, it loses oxygen.
>>
>> The result, as a fisheries scientist put it some years ago, is
>> suffocation.
>>
>> I had that suffocation very much in mind when posting "I can't breathe"
>> -- if ocean fish could speak. It seemed appropriate.
>>
>> And I assumed it was an *everybody-knows-it* kind of thing
>>
>> Annie had and has no way to know how much I share her outrage over the
>> entrenched, systematic racism behind the violence including police murder
>> of George Floyd and many others of many skin colors. But she can tell you
>> that I told her my opinion that the fossil fuel industry has its knees on
>> all our necks
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